JUST IN: Bombshell Evidence Destroys Ford's Testimony At Hearing
chief national correspondent Edie Henry standing by with some breaking news on
the Cavanaugh hearing and some really interesting things were picking up
tonight from the committee and what have you got well Jenna you and I were just
talking at the top of the show but there's such a volume of information
pouring in from all sides it's hard to sort out what's accurate what's not so
we want to be really careful how we will report this but I just got a tip as soon
as I came off the air with you a moment ago
that Senator Chuck Grassley about 45 minutes maybe an hour ago put out what
looks like an innocuous timeline of what the Judiciary Committee has done with
all the information they've been getting the interviews they've been doing and
there's a nugget buried on page four or five on Monday of this week senator
Grassley is saying his staff had an interview with a man quote who believes
he not judge Cavanaugh had the encounter with dr. Ford in 1982 that is the basis
of his complaint he submitted a written statement early that day even more
important Tuesday September 25th according to chairman Grassley quote
committee staff had a second interview with a man who believes he not judge
Cavanaugh had the encounter with dr. Ford in the summer of 82 that is the
basis of our allegation here's the key line he described his recollection of
their interaction in some detail as if this person has more details more of a
recollection than judge Cavanaugh who has denied it now again we want to be
careful this person could turn out to be fake this person can turn out to not
have the goods to deliver on the other hand the fact that the committee tonight
is putting this out right before the hearing suggests maybe they're going to
talk about it tomorrow and maybe they're giving it some weight Shanon because
they've not interviewed this man once they've interviewed him twice we don't
have his name but I wonder from a legal standpoint as well if this man is
telling the truth that he thinks he may have assaulted dr. Ford is he putting
himself in legal jeopardy by coming forward you have to ask that question
this is so bizarre only because you and I Mike Emanuel Chad
program so many members on our team have been getting leaks of information from
the committee from the for legal team from other people all connected to this
this is the first I've heard of the mentioned when we got this tonight from
the committee yeah you know it's several pages long I was running out to do the
shelter I'm looking over it I didn't even get to this part yeah it's a normal
timeline it just says and so our folks understand our viewers understand the
context the timeline that's put out is Chuck Grassley saying on July 30th
Dianne Feinstein got the letter we all know about that anonymous from dr. Ford
and then go to Thursday September 13th when senator Feinstein transmits that
letter to the FBI again all this is routine September 14th mark judge does
an interview with the Weekly Standard Sunday September 16th the big day we all
know about the Washington Post doesn't on the record interview with dr. Ford
and then again there's a whole series here's what the committee did on Monday
September 17th here's what they did you know that previous week now this week
for the first time tonight we're learning that the committee has spoken
to a man that's all they say they're not giving a name will we hear from this man
tomorrow I wonder because there gonna be a lot of people digging for more
information to welcome and it does say that he submitted a written statement
and you know that so many of the statements that have come into the
committee they've said they were taken under penalty potentially felony
potential t so it'll be interesting to see if this statement is introduced
tomorrow but wow what a nugget buried here we'll wait to suss this out and see
what comes of it but it's interesting part of the timeline ed thank you very
much well I Heather good morning there's an enormous amount of information
pouring in before those senators come into this Dirksen Senate Judiciary
Committee room let's just get right to it the two men you mentioned we learned
late last night from chairman Grassley staff that on Monday the interview two
men on Monday one man who says that he believes he not Judge Cavanaugh had the
encounter with dr. Ford in 1982 that is the basis for Ford's complaint he
submitted a written statement then on Tuesday a second man coming forward also
believing that he that Judge Cavanaugh had the encounter with dr. Ford he
described his recollections of their interaction in some detail to the
committee now we're also hearing of more accusations a fourth accuser reported by
NBC News turns out to be an anonymous allegation sent to senator Cory Gardner
in a letter with no names claiming in a bar in 1998
Cavanaugh assaulted a woman when he was drunk in a so-called fifth accuser
coming by way of senator Sheldon Whitehouse from Rhode Island that one
being pretty much discounted and not having merit but let's just get to
today's hearing which will happen at 10:00 a.m.
dr. Ford and judge Cavanaugh will both the make opening statements with no time
limits then there will be the five-minute rounds of questions
Republicans of course bringing in that veteran sex crimes prosecutor Rachel
Mitchell to do their inquiry an excerpt that we've received from dr. Ford's
testimony we expect her to say this quote Brett put his hand over my mouth
to stop me from screaming this was what terrified me that most and has had the
most lasting impact on my life it was hard for me to breathe and I thought
that Brett was accidentally going to kill me now Cavanaugh's attorney Beth
Wilkinson addressed the number of allegations including dr. Ford's here's
what she had to say if they thought that these allegations had any merit they
should have come forward before and there would have been plenty of time to
do whatever they want to do but you have to question the motives when they come
forward with the most salacious most outrageous allegations the day before
the hearing and all eyes will be on dr. Ford in this room behind me one of the
cherished committee members senator chris coons had this to say his
challenge is to persuade us that he has the judicial temperament and the
integrity to serve on the Supreme Court dr. Ford I'll remind you has nothing to
gain from this and has already suffered significant harm to herself and her
family so today I'm it'll begin in this room behind me in a few hours I'll do
the security sweep but it's gonna be a real day for these sensors because as
you mentioned Heather when we woke up this morning we had to process all this
information it's important to get it very right because there's a lot coming
out but imagine what it's like to be one of those senators trying to decide where
things stand and what the truth is I cannot imagine I mean 11 Republicans 10
Democrats so we're gonna talk a little bit more about what we know about Rachel
Mitchell coming up a little bit later in the newscast thank you so much Griff we
appreciate it also tonight Christine blase Ford's
legal team seeing the results of a polygraph test
she took in August the former FBI agent who administered that polygraph test
jeremiah Hannifin Nikki likes to go by Jerry it's here to describe that session
and tell us what Ford told him great to have you with us tonight thank you okay
let me ask you a couple of things you've been doing this since 1995 I understand
you spent about an hour and a half to two hours with dr. Ford in this process
and only asked two questions so we'll get to that but part of it was getting
her written statement which I think we have we can put up for folks but also
you did an interview with her about all of these allegations before you then
administered the test first of all how were you approached about the tests how
does that work who pays for it believe it or not was Monday night August 6th on
eight o'clock at night I got a call from Deborah Katz and Lisa banks I had done
some work for them in the past and they asked if I could do a polygraph test the
next day I told them I had a commitment I could do it later on in the afternoon
and they said they had a client who was in from out of town that was leaving
later on early in the afternoon if there was any way they said it was important
any way I could try to rearrange my schedule so I did I was able to
rearrange my schedule for the next day I called them back and and I said I could
do it the next morning and that's when they told me about the facts that they
had a client who was making allegations back in high school that she was
assaulted by Brett Kavanaugh so we we discussed the details that night and we
discussed the questions that I we both thought were appropriate to ask in these
situations I've done these kind of tests before with no victims and normally what
we'll have them do was write out a statement about the facts so my
introduction to this case was 12 hours before I actually conducted the
polygraph so does it work that her law firm pays for your service and it's done
because you want to maintain that attorney-client work product privilege
okay okay so she in addition to providing the written statement which
we've put up and it basically tracks with the facts that we've heard publicly
for the most part you did and then spent quite a bit of a time with her doing an
additional interview before you would get to the part where you'd actually ask
her the questions so I want to ask you about a few of the things that are in
your summary in this summation at one point you say she states Marc was
laughing meaning Marc judge and coaxing Kavanaugh
on this is the period where she says Kavanaugh was on top of her blase
recalls making eye contact with Marc and thinking he may help her
did she explain that at all where she felt through most of her account that he
was a bad actor is there a reason that she felt like making contact with him in
some way would help her I understand and again it's just might we're talking with
her I think what she said she made eye contact she thought legitimately maybe
he and I think she said at some point I was conflicted I thought maybe he was
going to try to help me when you do your interview before the polygraph specially
on a victim you don't ask a lot of follow-up questions okay it's you know
it's kind of a heinous thing that that's happened that they're alleging okay she
was interviewed in depth the day before by by Lisa and Debbie I'm assuming and
so you want to get the general facts so to continue to ask questions and pry it
can you don't want someone to get too emotional especially a victim so when
you ask that question which is a good question
no I just let her state the navin or okay she also said according to your
summation on a couple of occasions mark would come over and jump on the bed
while this was all playing out the last time he did this all three became
separated and blase was able to get free and run to the bathroom I've always been
intrigued by this did she say that he was piling onto the two of them he was
jumping on the bed separately did you get any indication I think at one point
that she told me during the interview that you know he would jump on the bed
and sometimes they I think the phrase she used is kind of you know hit each
other a little bit and then he would jump off in 30 and he and Brett market
being break yes exactly and then the third time apparently he jumped on the
bed it caused some separation in as she described in the pile which she said I
don't know if was my strength that it was enabling me get off or it's just
that I was free and they were so inebriated that I was able to go into
the bathroom and lock the door okay but there was something going on between
Brett and Mark that just did horseplay or something I would describe it
probably a sports play okay because she describes him to is laughing that they
were laughing there was this whole thing but she felt in fear for her life is it
in the statement that she has to you at one point so these are the two questions
that you after she put together the statement and then you interviewed her
these are the two questions you asked is any part of your statement false
she said no did you make up any part of your statement her answer was no I don't
know a lot about polygraph test but to me reading this from the outside it
seemed that I would expect many more questions is this
standard to just have the two yes it is and you know especially we need to do of
its it's very rare in law enforcement I spent most of my obviously my career in
working with the FBI you don't normally give polygraph tests to victims you
represent victims okay and you believe them unless you have some corroborating
evidence that there's something about these persons allegations this person's
allegations that you found some corroborate that you don't believe so
when you do polygraphs the most valid polygraph test Yemen is what we call a
specific issue polygraph it's this you phase polygraph examination it's taught
at the Department of Defense polygraph Institute you're addressing one issue
the one issue here is her statement okay and you have to address that one issue
only asking two questions so the protocol that I followed people think
I'm gonna come in and take a polygraph he's going to ask me ten questions was
it Brett Kavanaugh exactly but you just look at the overall same you look at you
overall as you asked two questions and that is the most validated polygraph is
it possible for someone to pass a polygraph test based on the conviction
that they believe what they're telling you is true you're not getting to the
veracity of what they're saying you're getting to their belief about what
they've told you right exactly okay very interesting thank you for
coming in jury it's great to meet you my pleasure nice to meet you too thank you
god bless you and God bless america
you
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