Hey there modern vegans and vegan curious.
It's Margaret, and welcome back to ModVegan.
Today is part 2 in my series regarding Gary Francione's
video about french fries and dumpster diving.
And today is part 2, where we will be discussing
dumpster diving and food insecurity and animal products.
I'd like to start off this video by mentioning that I believe
Professor Francione is extremely sincere in the video that he made.
I don't think that professor Francione has ever been food insecure,
fortunately he works at Rutgers University,
I don't think he is concerned about being able to feed himself
or his family, his companion animals.
I think they are all able to get the food that they need,
and that is excellent.
But I also know that's not the case for everyone.
And because this has been an issue for me personally
in my past, it's a little bit easier for me to talk about.
And it's also why I feel it's so important to share with you guys here today.
About 1 in 6 Americans is food insecure.
And that means that they don't really have enough food to eat,
and they have no idea where their next meal is coming from.
I was fortunate enough to have food for much of my youth,
until I was about 11 years old and my father became extremely ill.
At that point, I no longer had food security,
because my family simply didn't have the money, the ability to shop, everything else,
and from the time I was about 11 until I went off to University,
I didn't always know where my next meal was coming from.
And it was extremely stressful, just the idea of putting food on the table.
And so, I know what it's like to need to eat Top Ramen
for breakfast lunch and dinner for months - years - at a time.
I really do get that.
And I know what it's like to not know where your next meal is coming from.
And that's why I think that condemning dumpster diving,
condemning animal products roundly as never the right thing,
is, in a way, ignorant, and it's also just false.
And I appreciate professor Francione and his well-meaning intentions,
but I do think it's important to address this topic head on.
As I mentioned, I did go through a period in my life where my family subsisted on ramen
noodles and Hamburger Helper (often without much hamburger -
I mean, we used like a quarter of the amount of hamburger that was required for Hamburger
Helper).
I was not a vegan back then, but at the same time,
I would have definitely probably dumpster dived at that point if it had been a more
achievable way for us to get enough food.
And this is not to shame my family, but it was a very difficult time in our lives.
And so the first thing that I would say as a vegan,
is that if you're food insecure, I know where you're coming from.
And I don't expect you to be able to eat a vegan diet.
At that point in my life, I would have eaten whatever somebody offered me,
whether it was a charity giving me food from a food bank,
I would have eaten those things [and did].
I would have understood that was necessary for my survival,
and I would hope that professor Francione would understand that as well.
I think it's important when we're talking about veganism
to recognize that what we do is we do our best, as vegans,
to not support the suffering, the abuse, of animals whatsoever.
And one of the reasons that consequences are so important to me,
is that I know that we can't always do things perfectly.
I think we need to consider the consequences of our actions
and not just have these rules that we always follow no matter what.
Because, if we did, sometimes our families would starve to death.
And I think that it's completely ridiculous not to understand that's the case.
It's a nice thought, but unfortunately we don't live in a world yet where people are
able to get the food that they need, necessarily, without being able to access all the food
available to them.
It's one of the reasons that I made the video about what to do if you can't become vegan.
Because I recognize that not everyone has access to food,
can make their own food choices at all times.
It's simply not the truth.
I think that most of us can.
I mean, the reality is that almost everyone can make those decisions, but not everyone
can.
There are people who are ill, children that are coming from disadvantaged circumstances,
for whom that's not always a possibility.
And so, when I'm looking at something like dumpster diving,
I'm thinking, you know - are you encouraging the meat industry?
No.
Because you're not actually contributing to their profit line, to the bottom line of those
industries.
When you are doing something like dumpster diving,
you're not trying to encourage other people to do the same thing.
Honestly, if your friends see you diving into a dumpster,
Professor Francione says that is somehow encouraging people to eat animal products -
but let me tell you, if you're digging food out of a dumpster,
I mean, if you've ever been a teenager, you know that your friends are not going to be
like
"oh my god, Margaret is digging food out of a dumpster -
I totally want to go dig meat products out of dumpster, too.
Like, oh my goodness, that's so cool."
No, that is not the way it works, and that's ridiculous.
So, sorry professor Francione, you have no idea what it is to be food insecure,
it makes no sense to me whatsoever.
And I'm curious what some of you guys think about this too.
Especially any of you who have also been food insecure in the past.
I'd love to know what you have to say about this.
And I know - I realize now, that it's much easier for me to feed my family on a very,
very low plant-based budget, that that's a possibility.
But growing up, I didn't really know how to do those things.
I mean, I was a kid, and I certainly wouldn't blame my family for any of the things that
we needed to do in order to be able to survive back then.
And it's just - it's one of those things that...
....I think that at least 1 in 6 Americans, probably far, far more than that around the
world - have to do a lot of things that most of us would be ashamed to do, in order to
survive.
But that's just the reality.
And I don't think it does the vegan movement any good to be criticizing these people,
to be telling them that they're not vegan because they need to do these things in order
to survive.
I obviously don't think that we should be eating animal products under any circumstances.
I understand what he's saying, that it's the same as eating human body parts, but honestly,
if it was a choice between my family starving to death and eating human body parts,
I kinda know what I would do.
And you can take that how you will, but I mean,
as long as you're not hurting anyone else,
I don't see the problem in eating whatever it takes in order to survive.
Perhaps professor Francione would not do those things in order to survive,
but that's simply his standpoint on these issues,
and I happen to disagree.
I would do anything I could to feed my family,
whether that meant eating animals, vegetables, or minerals.
It doesn't really matter.
I would do whatever it took.
And I think that if you've actually been in those situations,
you're more likely to be able to understand that.
One of the things that really concerned me about this video,
whether we're talking about dumpster diving or about eating french fries, or anything
like that,
is that, professor Francione seems to be saying that there's this hard and fast rule that
you never eat animal products,
no matter what, or you're not a vegan, period.
That is the end of the vegan movement.
And if that is the entire message of the vegan movement,
I think that we're leaving a lot of people behind.
As I've mentioned before, there are people who live
in care situations where they're not able to choose what they eat.
There are people who do not have access to food.
There are people who are in in-patient programmes
where they're required to eat certain foods.
And to say that those people are not welcome to
the vegan movement is ridiculous to me.
I don't understand why we would want to exclude those people.
I think what we're trying to ask people as vegans is to do their very best to not contribute
in any way towards animal suffering, towards the consumption of animals, or anything like
that.
And I think that even when you're in extremely impoverished circumstances,
when you do need to get your food from dumpster diving,
you can still maintain the spirit of veganism, if not the letter of veganism.
And even though I very much respect professor Francione,
I think that his view on this is so rigid that it threatens veganism.
Because he's basically saying that unless you accept this abolitionist approach,
you're not a true vegan.
And I disagree with that.
I think there has to be some room within veganism
to examine the consequences of our actions, not just the letter of the law.
Veganism isn't only about never using animal products.
Because, for one thing, that's impossible.
As I've mentioned previously,
if you use a credit card, if you use cash in many parts of the world,
if you ever eat items from plastic or saran wrap or anything else,
if you drive on roads, if you walk on sidewalks, if you use biofuel,
you're using animal products in every single one of those instances.
And to pretend that we can live untainted by a world in which
animals are used and abused for our pleasure,
is just ridiculous.
We are going to be "tainted" we are going to be "contaminated"
by the use of animals.
Because that's the way our world works.
But we can fight against it, and I honestly believe that no matter what your circumstances,
whether you are rich or poor, or anything in between,
you can still fight against the use and abuse of animals,
the exploitation of animals.
The exploitation of human beings!
By being a good and decent person.
And I think that
we all have to make decisions sometimes that may not be
our ideal decisions.
And that's the reality of living in a world that's not perfect.
Do I think that means that we should just, you know,
eat ground beef that's sprinkled on our food, as he mentioned earlier in his video?
No, I don't think that.
And I don't think we need to eat cheese or anything else like that.
But it depends on the situation.
If you're close to death and your family needs to eat animal products in order to survive,
then that's just the way things are.
And perhaps professor Francione would choose to starve to death.
But I don't think that's the right decision,
and I don't think that it has any material impact on the use of animals in our society.
I'd like to see vegans focusing less on purity,
and more on changing the world.
I think what we want to be doing as vegans is to be
changing the world, to be changing people's hearts,
to be changing people's minds!
Not necessarily to be imposing a strict, strict moral framework upon others,
to be assuming that everyone can live the way that we do,
even in a world that does use animals.
And I would really love to know what you guys think.
This has been an interesting topic for me to explore,
I definitely understand that people come from all different circumstances,
and that it's not always as easy as professor Francione
makes it out to be.
Again, I don't think he's doing anything malicious with this,
but I also don't think that he's ever had a family that he's been unable to feed.
And that's an important part of this video that is really missing.
That he didn't include in his information.
That he didn't even consider.
Because, I think for him, it's never been an issue.
And I'm glad for him, that that's never been an issue,
but I know that it is for many people.
And it's something that I wish all of us would consider,
and before you judge people, try to remember that there are families all over the world
that can't feed their children,
that have to watch their kids go hungry at night.
And before you start to judge them about using animal products,
or taking food from a food bank, please, please
give it consideration.
I would love to see more charities -
I mean, if you wanted to do something,
if you wanted to help people, maybe instead of condemning
them for dumpster diving, he could help create a vegan food bank,
things like that.
Those are things that we can do as vegans to help.
But, condemning people for what they do when they need to, that has no impact on other...
I mean, nobody goes out and dumpster dives because they saw someone else do it and they
think like
"oh, awesome, I'm going to go get rotting steak."
It's just not...it's not the way it works, in my opinion.
I think there's so many more wonderful things that we can do
to try to contribute.
Contribute some vegan food to a food bank!
Things like that!
But, let's focus on making ourselves better,
and not on judging others.
And I think that's the most important part of the vegan movement.
Let me know what you guys think!
Like, comment, subscribe, share this video if you liked it,
and I will see you in my next video.
Take care, bye
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